Prior to her current position, Asha served as a Special Agent in the New York Division of the FBI, specializing in counterintelligence investigations. At Yale, she teaches courses on national security law, Russian information warfare, and leadership and ethics. She is the author of The Freedom Academy, a bestselling online Substack publication about disinformation and its impact on democracy, and also co-hosts the legal podcast, It’s Complicated, with Renato Mariotti.
Asha graduated cum laude from the School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University and was awarded a Fulbright scholarship to study constitutional reform and U.S. drug policy in Bogotá, Colombia. She received her law degree from Yale Law School where she was a Coker Fellow in constitutional law, and served as a law clerk to the Honorable Juan R. Torruella on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Asha is a former legal and national security analyst for CNN and ABC News, and has also appeared frequently on MSNBC and BBC. She is an editor for Just Security, a member of the Council of Foreign Relations, and a Security Fellow with the Truman National Security Project.
I think that the through-line for all of those is impact and challenge. So, at each transition, I feel like I was stepping into something that I didn't have any experience in, prior to that. And, you know, it's, like, risk-taking and challenging and stretching my limits. Also, what appealed to me about all of those areas is that there is in different ways, a way to make a direct impact on your environment. Obviously, in the FBI, that's on the ground, investigating cases, and stopping threats. In academia, that's teaching and affecting people and how they think and how they approach the world critically, and in the media, especially over the last, you know, almost decade. It's been helping people understand and make sense of what's going on around them.
Every single one of those roles requires trust. As an FBI agent you need people to help you. People don't realize that the bread and butter of what agents do is getting people to talk to them and provide them information not necessarily because you're holding something over their head, but just because they want to help you. Similarly with students, you have to show that you are open and receptive to their ideas and willing to engage in an honest debate and a search for truth and I think that that engenders trust. Finally, in the media, there is a crisis of trust on what authorities you can rely on to give you factual information, and trust is basically the only courtesy that you have.
I think that our current political moment requires courage. And for me, that's something I have sought to embody in speaking out and speaking the truth. It is a challenge for leaders everywhere - to have moral courage and the ability to discern what is right. To be able to take a risk and speak truth to power, even if it might result in losing something that you hold dear, whether that's money or power. This has shaped the way I teach and write about leadership and ethics, and I'm actually working on a book proposal about moral courage and how we develop it in a world where finding the true north becomes increasingly difficult.
One skill I use for my FBI training is developing rapport. This is the foundational skill that they teach you in terms of interviewing, and it goes back to the idea of building trust. And building rapport really means understanding. The person who you are speaking with, and who you want information from and it requires curiosity. It's sort of the seek first to understand, and then be understood. So, I ask a lot of questions when I'm getting to know people, and kind of let them talk and that usually helps them let down their guard and become more open.
I think that I have been willing to take risks and have been willing to fail. When I talk to younger people who are very risk-averse and failure-phobic, I tell them that that is so critical to going beyond your self-imposed limits and learning what you're capable of. I've also always been very confident in my ability to be resilient. I think feeling that sense of inner safety and security has helped me really step into things that were otherwise really, really scary.
Zarna Garg. She is a comedian, a South Asian immigrant who trained as a lawyer, was a stay at home mom, and decided to give comedy a try after her kids told her she was funny and should do stand up. She literally started from scratch, and has been enormously successful over the last few years — she’s recently had a Netflix special and a movie. (I was fortunate to get to know her before her career exploded!) Much of it is because of her natural talent (she is absolutely hilarious), but I also admire her relentless hustle and the way she is able to use social media in creative ways to expand her brand. And, of course, I love when an immigrant story becomes an American success story, especially when it allows people to connect with and appreciate the South Asian experience, as her comedy does.
Sleep. I've realized that this is what makes or breaks my day. As I get older, I'm so protective and careful about my sleep and it really has a direct impact on my effectiveness.
I have two kids, and one is going off to college, and another one is a rising junior. And what excites me is seeing what path they choose for themselves, and what gets them passionate – and helping guide them to pursue those things.
It's a book called The Wisdom of the Enneagram. I'm actually a certified Enneagram instructor now and I found that book was really useful in creating some self-reflection and awareness of my own blind spots. And it was a hugely helpful tool in my own personal development, and in understanding the lens through which some of the people in my life see the world, and how people are experiencing the world in very different ways. Understanding that everyone is reacting to their own perceptions has helped me to take things less personally, to be less reactive and to be much more aware of my own reactions.
What I love about the Enneagram is that it doesn't just check boxes on personality traits. It's really about the fears and motivations that drive someone, that have been shaped and that have been these unquestioned beliefs that we kind of carry with us that shape how we interact with the world. Especially as a former FBI agent, this was super interesting because part of what I did in the FBI was assess people's motivations, desires and what makes them tick.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
